A reader writes: “I’m a trans woman. Recently I have wondered why there seems to be a much greater percentage of trans women who seek relationships with women than trans men who seek relationships with other men.
“Stephen Ira’s (Warren Beatty and Annette Bening’s son) story of having a boyfriend started me thinking. He is the only trans guy who I ever heard of having a boyfriend. The couple of trans men I know would never consider a relationship with a male.
“Now I know I can get into a basic male-bashing rant, but could there be other factors I’m missing? Any ideas?”
Sexual orientation is a slippery little slope, and few know that better than members of the trans community. Certain estimates say that the percentage of gay- or lesbian-identified trans people mirrors that of the larger non-trans population, and depending on which studies you read, people with a same-sex sexual orientation make up anywhere from 3 to 10 percent of the general population (I’m talking U.S. research figures here).
I happen to think that the percentages are substantially higher, both for non-trans and for trans people, and I think the percentage of bisexual people is even higher – or would be, if our (U.S.) culture allowed us to follow our attractions wherever they led without stigma or repercussions.
In my experience, I have not seen that more trans women are attracted to women (trans or non-trans) than trans guys are attracted to men (trans or non-trans). I am aware of quite a few trans guys who consider themselves to be gay or bisexual (and I also know quite a few who have other, broader labels for their sexuality). My own estimation, from personal experience but with absolutely no scientific data to back it up, runs at about 30 percent with regard to non-heterosexual orientation.
But let’s say that it’s true that more trans women are attracted to women than trans men are attracted to men. If it is true, here are a few possible explanations for such a phenomenon:
> There is a huge stigma in U.S. culture (and many other cultures as well) with regard to same-sex attractions, and that stigma is greater for men than it is for women. Therefore, more trans women might feel comfortable publicly admitting and following through with their attraction to other women, whereas trans men might be more hesitant to follow through with their attraction to other men, particularly if they have bought into the traditional notion that “real men” don’t have sex with or fall in love with other men. I think this is true of non-trans women and non-trans men as well.
> Many trans women, particularly from my generation, were legally married to women prior to coming out and transitioning. While transition can certainly end a marriage, in many cases it doesn’t – particularly if the non-trans spouse is female.
What I’m going to say now is a generalization and certainly does not hold true for every woman or every man, but research has shown that women (in general) tend to be less concerned about the physical aspects of a relationship than they are about the emotional aspects, and they tend to prize emotional closeness, commitment, and partnership above other characteristics of the relationship.
While men also value these characteristics, they tend (in general) to have a stronger focus on the physical, which makes them more likely to leave a relationship if major physical changes take place in the spouse (such as a spouse who formerly appeared female now appearing male). In addition, the fear of being perceived as a gay man can cause the relationship to disrupt if a female spouse transitions.
So, long story longer, non-trans women in what they perceived as a heterosexual marriage are more likely to stay with a transitioning spouse than non-trans men are, resulting in the appearance of more trans women being with women (their wives) than trans men being with men (their husbands – or, by now, their former husbands).
Again, I believe that this tends to be a characteristic of a certain age group or generation, and is found more frequently in couples in their thirties or forties and beyond. I also think that, had these marriages ended, some of these trans women might have pursued male partners after transition, but because the marriage endured, they preferred to stay with their wife.
> Also, because of the (generalized-but-backed-by-some-research) concept that women tend to place more focus on the emotional, rather than the physical, aspects of a relationship, trans women may find more acceptance, closeness, and emotional connection among women than they do among men, while testosterone, by dramatically increasing sex drive in many trans men, results in a broader scale of sexual attraction in some guys.
Using testosterone might result in some guys finding both men and women attractive, but since women (in general) care less about physical aspects, such as genitalia, and gay men (in general) do care about such aspects, guys who could “go either way” might have more luck finding female partners.
Although I consider myself “gay” for most intents and purposes, I found that an unexpected byproduct of testosterone was a new appreciation of the attractiveness of women, both sexually and otherwise. (Note: this does not mean that hormones can change sexual orientation – they might alter attractions, but giving hormones to gay men and lesbians will not make them straight. Sexual orientation is complex, and any trans person’s experience with shifting attractions should not be generalized to a non-trans population.)
Now, with all that said, it is important to keep several things in mind:
> It has not been my experience that more trans women are attracted to women than trans men are attracted to men.
> I actually know tons (there’s a scientific figure for you) of gay trans men, and I know quite a few who are in long-term relationships with other gay men (trans or non-trans). I also know a lot of trans women who are interested in men and are in long-term relationships with men.
> In many cases, younger people (and some older people) are defining their sexual orientation far more broadly than in the past, so not only do the traditional labels for sexual orientation not apply to them, but the traditional definitions of male and female and man and woman do not apply to them, either, and all of this stuff pretty much goes out the proverbial window.
> I am not a trans woman, so anything I say about trans women is utter speculation – which is why I rely on my women readers both to fill in the gaps and to tell me when I’m full of it. And since I can’t represent all trans men (I can only represent myself), I hope the guys will have plenty to say as well.
So now let’s hear from my “better half” – my readers. Take it away!
I am a trans woman , speaking from experience. Pre-transition , I was attracted to women , as HRT took hold I went through a not interested in women – oh wow boys phase. As my transition progressed I found i’m still attracted to women . I happened to get engaged to a very special woman , late 2011 , She proposed to me .
According to the National Center for Transgender Equality’s findings from a ten year long study (the largest trans study ever conducted anywhere), only 21% of the trans community identifies as heterosexual (attracted to the opposite gender of which they identify). (Full NCTE report here: http://www.thetaskforce.org/downloads/reports/reports/ntds_full.pdf)
“Recently I have wondered why there seems to be a much greater percentage of trans women who seek relationships with women than trans men who seek relationships with other men.”
This is not the case in my circles – maybe you haven’t been in the right places (girls?! eww!).
“Stephen Ira’s story started me thinking . . .he is the only trans guy who I ever heard of having a boyfriend. The couple of trans men I know would never consider a relationship with a male.”
Did you read Matt’s book? Maybe it’s just the trans guys who are into women who hang around with you and your friends, ‘cause they’re . . . you know . . . into women. The rest are hanging out with me and my friends.
“Now I know I can get into a basic male-bashing rant, but could there be other factors I’m missing?”
No, please don’t go there. Matt answered this well, so I’m not going to repeat anything there, but I have to comment on your “male-bashing rant” suggestion as it offends me. It seems to me (or maybe I haven’t been in the right places either), that a lot of that goes on in trans women groups. I’ve personally experienced it several times in the last few months and, although I know not all trans women bash men, every time I see it, it becomes more difficult for me to stay objective and detached – especially as they’ve been very dismissive when I’ve pointed it out nicely and asked them to stop. We’re all in this together and generalizations don’t help anyone, so anything you can do to curtail the male-bashing among anyone you know, is greatly appreciated.
I prefer guys, I think, but have not ‘done it’ with a woman, so who knows. And yes, there is more to attraction than sex, but oy vey, that testosterone…
I am a 66 y/o woman who happens to have significant experience trying to be a man. I have always seen myself as bisexual both before and after transition. Post transition I dated several men but with one very notable exception, I found that mens primary focus on sex w/o the emotional connection was so very unsatisfying to me. Ironically, I have not been w/ another woman post transition partly or perhaps largely because I feel so unsure and insecure as to how to go about such a relationship. Silly on my part I know but it is what it is.
What I do know for sure is this- I’m no longer interested in casual sex as w/o the emotional connection it does nothing for me. IF, and I think this is a really huge if, I ever find another partner, first and foremost it will be with a person, male or female, who I feel a strong emotional connection with.
Ironically, at least to me as I had not until recently considered this, perhaps my very best relationship option is another trans person, female or male. Why you ask? Well simply put it seems like such a relationship might offer me the very best that any relationship could provide, the emotional with the physical. For myself, only with the emotional comes the very satisfying physical, no special body parts required.
I am a trans man and consider myself to be a gay man. I know quite a few trans men through various outlets and it seems about a 40/40/20 split between gay/straight/bi. I went through a period where I was trying to figure it all out, but it did sort itself out.
My concern with this question is why a trans woman feels the need to have a male bashing rant in the first place? Seems a little like bashing herself to me. I was labelled a female eventhough I did not ever believe myself to be one, but I sure wouldnt go around bashing women through a rant or any other form of bashing for that matter, because I have an understanding of women that most non trans males do not have. I have lived that life. So if a trans woman was labelled as a male and live a portion of her life as a male, then why would she bash males? She has an understanding of males that non trans women will never have. Sounds to me like there is still some underlying dislike for herself that she feels needs to be bashed. I hope she comes to terms with that and stops verbally bashing anybody.
I have seen some surveys on european trans men websites and there was the same 40/40/20 statistics. Many trans men are either gay or have a T induced gay phase that is similar to adolescent experimentation. There is also the equivalent of MSM (men who have sex with men/but date women) in the trans male community. Quite a high number is sneaking away from their girl friends to have quick anonymous sex by gay dating websites. I know it- I met them there
Where I live, the stigma against gay men is not as big as in the US, so recently there have been quite a number of former straight couples who stayed together after the “female” part transitioned to male. These couples are now living as gay or bi couples.
I know a lot of trans men (myself included) who are gay or queer identified, many of whom prefer to date other trans guys. I definitely know plenty of folks who are attracted to women but I don’t think I know that many trans men who consider themselves completely straight. Several of the guys I know who spent years in the lesbian community and are still dating women are also interested in cis or trans men as well.
The most interesting conversation about this I had was when I was at a social event with a lot of trans men who were a good bit older than me (I was probably 25 at the time and these were men in their early 40s). One of the older men said point-blank that he was completely baffled by how many younger gay/queer trans men were at the meeting; he made it sound like he didn’t know any trans men his age who weren’t straight.
Of course, there was also a cis woman there who couldn’t understand why I would go through “all the trouble” of transitioning if I wasn’t going to date women. That was an odd conversation as well; I tried to explain that I had been with women and had a genderqueer partner, but I think in her mind it only made sense to be trans if you were also straight.
I’ve found it easier to just hang out by myself because I don’t seem to fit in with trans people or cis people in my area. (so far it’s come down to being no op from both sides.)
I am a trans woman who is fortunate enough to have met–and married–my Princess Charming. I met her before I began my transition, and over the course of several months we fell in love. Neither of us planned it, neither of us, in fact, was even looking for a relationship. It just happened.
The fact that she’s a woman had little to do with it. Had she been a man with the same personality and quirks, and had I happened to meet him first, who knows? I might be with him. I guess that’s just the way I am.
Our friend from the Washington Gender Alliance explained it this way when our daughter (her daughter, my step) wanted to know if that made us lesbians or what: “Stacey and Robyn, you are oriented on each other. Stacey, you’re a Robyn-sexual, and Robyn, you’re a Stacey-sexual.” That answer works for all three of us.
I’m a post-op Trans woman of 4 1/2 years. I have been attracted to men from the age of 13. The hormones, age, and SRS seem to have eliminated any sex drive I had. In general, I have a very hard time finding any man who wants a relationship. Sex yes, but relationship..no way. I find that my needs as a woman are hugely different than when I was a guy. Before it was very physical, all about the body, muscles, masculinity, penis size. Now I’m looking for companionship, someone who respects me and that I want to grow old with.
I wish I had my sex drive back because even if I found a woman, she would need physical intimacy. I guess I’m destined to be alone, which was always my worst fear. I don’t regret transitioning but people need to know that finding a partner as a Trans person is very hard if not impossible.
Nikki,
In addition to talking w/your endo I suggest allowing yourself to be open to possible relationships, allowing things to gradually develop as they will. I also do not have a high sex drive. However, I find that when I am with one very special person, I am very easily aroused just by talking, looking at him. Think of Meg Ryan in the restaurant scene in the movie “Sleepless in Seattle”. Relax, give yourself a chance. Never ever did I imagine or even hope for sex to be so wonderful. As I tell folks sex as a woman is for me infinitely better than it was as a man, but ONLY when I have that great emotional connection.
NikkiH
Have you talked to your endo about your loss of sex drive? Many post op women have extremely low testosterone levels and that very often causes a loss of sex drive. A small dose of testosterone can usually jump start it again.
Wendy
I must be the anomaly. I grew up trying my hardest to be a boy. I knew that I wasn’t However I was never attracted to guys sexually, but I wasn’t attracted to women either. I dated maybe three young women in my youth to satisfy my mother. One young lady refused to go out with me a 2nd time because I didn’t try anything on our first date. I am a boomer, so when I was growing up no one knew anything about transsexuals. I was setup on a blind date and I was so comfortable with this person that we ended up marrying. I should have known not to go thru with it because in the limo I was wishing I was the bride.
I never wanted to be intimate, it felt wrong, it felt dirty and unnatural. Well I was raped by her one morning and I have a 29 yo son who I wouldn’t trade for anything. I transitioned and became complete some 16 years ago. After 18 months of HRT I discovered men. It was as if a light bulb went off. I enjoy having a man in my life, being intimate with a man. I was never interested in being intimate until that switch got turned on. I now have a boyfriend and hope one day to be his wife.
I am a transman in a relationship (6.5 years) with a cisman, and our relationship has only gotten stronger since I began my transition (though there were certainly major bumps along the way, even now). When we met, I identified as pansexual and he as mostly heterosexual but somewhat bisexual… Now, I identify as queer– and he as Ganysexual, like staceysgrrl mentioned earlier.
I think it would be difficult, if not impossible, to judge whether transmen or transwomen are more likely to have woman-identified partners… So many factors. Also, as a transman, I shy away from making any broad declarations based in someone’s gender. We humans are an infinite horizon of possibilities, a rainbow– and it is beautiful.
I just started T several weeks ago… it will be interesting to experience the interplay between overall sex drive and orientation – forewarned is forearmed!
As mentioned by others, my partner also identifies as “me-sexual” – meaning she is really just attracted to me.
I am asexual. As for me being with a woman? I personally attribute it to the “generalized-but-with-research” idea that it is easier – or just much more likely – to find a non-asexual woman, rather than a man, who would be more interested in emotional intimacy and willing to mostly give up the sexual part of a relationship. Either scenario is possible, just one is more probable.
Another is that of visibility. Perhaps the person who asked this question reads only certain blogs or talks to a certain circle of friends. Trans-circles can often be very cliquey, and if you don’t specifically set out to look for one you might just sit in yours oblivious to everyone else’s.
My partner is straight-identified and I am FtQ. He says it is difficult trying to adjust to me now in my more androgynous state than when I was flamboyantly feminine (all for show, alas). So yeah, our sex life is stepping back to regroup. But because our relationship is built on more than just a physical connection, we are able to use that emotional connection to move forward in a healthy direction. After all, we’re more than just two identities, we’re two people.
I was born female-bodied and grew up socialized that way. In 1996, at 40, I transitioned to the male life I should have always been able to live and I’ve never looked back. I am heterosexual. I was heterosexual prior to transition and never had or was interested in a lesbian relationship. I am also former military and had many, many opportunities to have a lesbian relationships over my 20-year career, but was just never attracted to women…I liked men and, in fact, was married three times to men. I have two beautiful daughters that I carried full-term who now have families of their own. I am a very proud father and grandfather. When I transitioned I went through a period of sexual “non-interest” for about 10 months and then, one bright, sunny day, noticed an attractive woman on the beach in a whole new way. She was HOT and my body reacted in a way that almost startled me in its intensity. From that day forward I knew I was still heterosexual and have had two very successful long-term relationships with women since then. My first female interest was a heterosexual woman and we were in a committed relationship for 11 years before our careers separated us…we’re still friends. My current relationship is with a transwoman who transitioned just over 10 years ago and has been ongoing for six years. We’re married and very happy together. My experience in the trans community with regard to sexual orientation is that for many, many transfolk it’s a question of personal comfort and acceptance of themselves in their authentic genders. I know many transwomen who transitioned and initially considered themselves lesbians but after several years “discovered” men and now consider themselves either heterosexual or bisexual and the same holds true for at least a dozen transmen that I know personally. However there are also friends who remained in their long-term marriages after they transitioned genders and are now in same-sex marriages and are very happy, at least in the states that recognize their marriages. As for “bashing” one gender or another…it goes both ways. Usually it happens earlier in transition but I’ve seen many instances where it continues for the life of the person doing the “bashing”…they’re usually angry, hurt, depressed or otherwise compromised emotionally and bashing is the way they relieve some of their own pain. I don’t agree with it, but it exists and short of helping that person get help for their issues, the best thing to do is walk away and don’t engage. It’s pointless to argue with someone who is unable or unwilling to recognize that they’re lashing out in pain at the very people who actually are able to accept and support them in their authentic genders. The point of this is to simply say that the statistics and the numbers don’t matter…people living authentic lives in their true genders with the ability to be happy is what matters. Who really cares about the rest of it ?
Sorry…I didn’t mean to post as Anonymous. I just haven’t had enough coffee yet to day.
I am actually a bisexual transman with maybe a preference for men (I wonder if T will change that in anyway), but up to now I’ve never actively looked for a partner (I want to start T at least, before), and everytime I fell in love with someone it was always a girl; even now, the person I think I have a crush on is a girl.
Plus it’s easier; it “makes more sense”. It helped my father understand my situation. It doesn’t help that I’m scared I won’t be accepted in the gay community being bisexual and trans.
So basically I am actually bisexual, BUT I am mostly perceived as straight and it will probably be easier for me to date women in the future. This might be the case for the way that the person who asked the question, that she perceives something that isn’t quite as simple.
(Of course, the idea that “being gay is unmanly!” did also leave an impression on me when I was younger; I tried to “turn straight” for years, after all, because I thought you weren’t allowed to transition if you liked men.)
I am MTF and would love to find a man who could love me as a women without the issue of gender, but based upon respect and love. All I find is that other males trans becoming MTF want women and living a lesbian life style. Though I have no issue with this, it would be nice to live a ‘Normal’ life style. I have been through so much in my 47 year journey and I haven’t gone through all that to go with women. Helen Carter
“Though I have no issue with this, it would be nice to live a ‘Normal’ life style.”
Hi Helen,
How about saying that you would like to live a heterosexual lifestyle so not to hurt anyone’s feelings? I was reading your response and could relate until I read that.
For me: I know that I did not transition to still be a part of the lg “community” because pre-transition I was seen as a gay woman.
Your right of course, I find myself tripping over words these days, sadly, because I know what I mean, I rather stupidly think everyone else does. I thank you for your response. I forget that with this folding plastic box, the world is out there and life for sharing.
“I haven’t gone through all that to go with women.”
I would hope you went through all that to be yourself, not to get a date.
I haven’t gone through all this to go with women, but I haven’t gone through it to be alone either. From the age of thirteen, everything I have ever done as been for me. If it didn’t agree with me then I didn’t do, go, or have what ever. Now, I realise that the world doesn’t revolve around me and that sharing with another is a gift and a precious one at that. This is what I meant, yes to be myself, and as myself I am not so selfish. I am so glad you took the trouble to respond, thank you